Dungeons Suggestion

[Zirker]

Hi, I'm new here I decided to give my idea of how the dungeons and boss rooms should work like since I didn't see many suggestions regarding this, some of the stuff here are common sense still decided to point out just in case. It ended up being a bit extensive so I added a tl;dr at the bottom for you lazy people, cheers.


Dungeons

First I would like to set some bases on what the dungeons are meant to be in the server. From what I've read, Dungeons are an "instance" where the players are challenged either solo or co-op, the obstacles they face here are harder than the ones they meet in the world, their main incentive to do the dungeon is loot, xp.


Types:

Since your plan is to have it instance based like many modern MMORPGs I suggest 3 "types" of dungeons:

Small Dungeons: Not "heavy" in lore(players could find these by exploring, talking with random npcs, etc...), completed in a short amount of time, slightly challenging, can be done by solo and parties, mobs hp/damage scale of the size of the party, they give reasonably good loot and xp.

Lore Dungeons: Basicly like a Small Dungeon, but it's more important for lore, tied to quests, give better xp and loot, more narrative during the progression of the dungeon (longer as a consequence).

Endgame Grind Dungeons: This is the type of dungeon people would stay at and grind be it for loot or competition(leaderboard with "most times completed", "fastest run", etc...), challeging, certain dungeons are locked to 1-person/4-person/16-person, this allows for different types of challenges, for example, a dungeon that can only be run by a group of 16 people could be heavily focused on group coordination where each player has a different role).


Acessibility

From the other MMORPGs I have played there are a few ways you can enter a dungeon but it basicly boils down to this, physically walking up to the dungeon entrance or through a GUI or dungeon master/portal where you select the dungeon and then you get teleported inside the dungeon. Here's my opinion on both:

-Physically walking up to the dungeon: This is a good way to make the world feel more alive and connected, however as the map gets bigger it can get very tedious to go from a city that is in a corner of the map to a dungeon that is in the opposite end, it can also make it harder for players to find a party to do dungeons that require multiple people. I suggest this method for the Small and Lore Dungeons.

-Teleportation/GUI: Makes the implementation of new dungeons easier, you don't need to find 10 places for 10 different dungeons to fit in the world if you have an npc that teleports you inside of the dungeons, this has it's drawbacks mostly the lack of connection with the world might make it seem like it's a cheap way to add dungeons but if the method of transportation fits with the story behind that dungeon it bypasses the drawback. I suggest this for Endgame Grind Dungeons.


Party Finder

While this isn't vital to the actual dungeons, it helps forming parties on the spot without having to go to forums/discord looking for a group, it also helps making a balanced party(dps/healer/tank), would be nice if it was added eventually.


Dungeon Structure

I think the less important the dungeon is to the lore the more linear it should be, this shortens the amount of time it takes to complete the dungeon, it also shortens the time content creators spend working on the dungeon which lets them focus on more important stuff, it restricts the types of rooms you can put in the dungeon. Here's how I imagine how linear the types of dungeon mentioned above would be from most to less: Small > Endgame Grind > Lore.
Make use of the 3rd space that minecraft has, most recent MMORPGs are 3rd yet the dungeons in the games would work just aswell in a 2d game some might even work in 1d games, more dimensions means more brainpower which means more engagement from the player.

Dungeon Rooms

To make it easier for dungeon building most if not all devs look at dungeons as a big house composed of different rooms

-Entrance: Rather self explanatory, this is the room players start in, shouldn't have any mobs, should have the introductory NPCs explaining what you are supposed to be doing if it hasn't already been explained.

-Corridor: The bread and butter of linear dungeons, populated by trash mobs, can have an elite mob of some kind that you need to defeat to exit the room.

-Intersection: Basicly a corridor but presents more options of where the player can go.

-Treasure Room: Contains some sort of reward, but not the end dungeon reward, can be a lootchest, semi-boss, lore...

-Ambush/Trap room: Harder room where the player is at a disadvantage.

-Boss Room: This is where the boss waits (for dyescape to release) for the players. Dungeon usually ends after defeating it.

Boss Mechanics

The boss is supposed to be the climax of the dungeon, if you are having trouble visualizing how exciting it should be to fight the boss imagine dyescape being released in an hour. Here is a list I came up with some mechanics, how you apply them depends on the theme:

-Boss doesn't move;
-Boss moves;
-Boss is composed of multiple segments/mobs;
-Boss' segment is weak to damage;
-Boss' segment resists damage;
-Boss/Player spawns mobs to deal damage;
-Boss/Player spawns mobs to heal Boss;
-Boss/Player is weak in a certain area of the room;
-Boss/Player is strong in a certain area of the room;
-Boss/Player is weaker for a certain period of time;
-Boss/Player is stronger for a certain period of time;
-Boss/Player restricts a Player/Boss from doing actions;
-Boss/Player resticts area in the room;
-Boss is weak to traps in room;
-Boss/Player channel high damage attack;
-Boss/Player channel strong debuff attack;
-Boss changes attack pattern and/or stats based on current hp;
-Boss changes attack pattern and/or stats based on timer;
-Room has traps;
-Room is slowly collapsing;

Solo Dungeons

In my opinion these will be the hardest to balance, my suggestion is to add mechanisms in the dungeon to help classes that underperform in relation to others, for example a room has a lot of mobs but they have low hp, jimmy-the-rogue who specializes in single target high damage can easily kill them, but he can only kill one at a time he'll probably get swarmed to death before he can kill them all, now if jimmy-the-rogue sees those explosive barrels in the middle of the room and throws a dagger he might kill quite a few in a shorter amount of time and survive.


tl;dr: This is actually an announcement that dyescape will be delayed by another year due to unforeseen circumstances, plz go back to your waiting room.

 

[MrDienns]

tl;dr: This is actually an announcement that dyescape will be delayed by another year due to unforeseen circumstances, plz go back to your waiting room.

I pretty much do agree with all of the above. As you said, plenty of the above is common sense and most of it is pretty much discussed and/or finalized internally already.

The one thing we are still fairly uncertain about is how we should grant people access to the dungeons. Looking at WynnCraft for example, you're required to find a dungeon key which nearby stronger monsters drop when killed. They're a little more rare to find and harder to kill. I do personally like this mechanic but I'm not sure what others think about it. In my opinion there should be some kind of "price" for entering a dungeon. Any ideas on this are more than welcome.

 

[Zirker]

Wynncraft actually has a few more conditions to be able to enter the dungeon, you have minimum lvl, key, and for the non corrupted version you need to have completed a quest. Looking at other MMORPGs, WoW and GW2 have free entry on dungeons, however in WoW some can only be completed daily while others weekly, and in GW2 you get diminishing returns if you have completed it recently. Another restriction that most MMORPGs have in common is minimum gear score.

With all of that said I think a mix of all of that would be ideal, players should be able to enter a dungeon for free, if they meet the minimum gear score(if there is such thing in dyescape), lvl requirements, quest... if a player has done the dungeon x amount of times within a short amount of time they would start gaining less and less from it, alternatively they could use a "key"(could be obtained from professions or monsters) where the player is exempt from diminishing returns.

 

[Euvrounin]

Thank you for your suggestions however, most of these stuff has been discussed by the team already, and I can proudly say though cannot spoil anything as of this moment, that almost everything you mentioned were part of the plan (is that a spoiler :c oh no..)

One thing I can assure to all players is that the Dungeon is pretty complex, exciting and fun to play (though the final production will still be on the Development Team since they are the one responsible for making it, but from the Content Team perspective, it is better than you all expect it to be)
Of course as mentioned above, some of them have Deep story line, but incorporating the Lore/Story during the Dungeon runs is a No (except probably on Single run dungeons), since it takes too much time and can greatly ruin the mood of the gameplay.

Regarding your Boss Mechanics, those are commonly see in any rpg dungeons and we have far more better mechanics for that, so stay tune.
Spoilers/Videos/Gifs of the gameplay will be released once the Dyescape Staff Team is done with it.

Again, Thank you for your suggestions!

 

[MrDienns]

With all of that said I think a mix of all of that would be ideal, players should be able to enter a dungeon for free, if they meet the minimum gear score(if there is such thing in dyescape), lvl requirements, quest... if a player has done the dungeon x amount of times within a short amount of time they would start gaining less and less from it, alternatively they could use a "key"(could be obtained from professions or monsters) where the player is exempt from diminishing returns.

Yes, Dyescape could easily implement a "gear score" requirement mechanism. It would be a fine suggestion to put gear score (though this shouldn't only be purely armor value, looking at magic classes), minimum level and/or quest requirements on a dungeon.

I personally also still like the key system and the repeating dungeon completion (getting less exp if you complete a dungeon over and over again) could be used to prevent people from boosting themselves too much (though we will have balancing monitoring in place by then). I guess we could implement all of the above if it's not too overkill. We will discuss things internally within the team by that time and see what everyone's opinion about this is. If we feel like we have to, we'll make a public poll about it.