Suggestion Out Of Combat Skills?

Discussion in 'Suggestions and feedback' started by Rednaxman, Jul 26, 2019.

Do you believe this should be implemented? Please be honest!

  1. Yes! I think it would be a good addition to make the server special.

    6 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No! I believe it will be unused and too much effort for too little payoff.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    Petition: Implement more basic living skills to the scape, to help push the economy in the correct direction once it has players. Whilst it's all so well and good being the strongest fighter, who can make you the high quality potions that you need? Who trained to produce the highest quallity food to buff you before battle, and who refines the rough wolf pelt into the luxurious tanned leather to be used in your gear? When you implement a system that requires professionals to enter the field, it opens new sources of income for various people, aswell as provides opportunity for players themselves to give quests, bringing various items to them or escorting them from town to town as they themselves are not equipped to fight. Every world needs the common craftsmen, and if you do it right, it could be the thing that really separates you from the rest.

    Think about it, leather pouches so brilliantly crafted that it can hold just a bit more into them, spears with high quality metal that resists the heat of the forge, protecting you just a little bit more from the fires in the world. Hearty meals that fill you up, making you jump just a little bit further, run a little bit faster. Craftsmen with their own secret recipes for the perfect potion, experimenting with different ingredients to form the ultimate poison to drench your blade in.

    I understand this is a collosal thing to ask, but I honestly do believe that this would be a great addition to the server and would be used by the common person and the dedicated craftsmen.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this!
     
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  2. Perotin

    Perotin Duke

    Ratings:
    +60
    Just to clarify: You're asking for professions to have depth in terms of skill? It does sound like a really interesting concept from an economic stand-point and RP perspective. Would this be similar to MCMMO where you grind out a skill and it evolves over time, or innately skill-based, or perhaps a mixture of both?
     
  3. Aekalix

    Aekalix Frontend & Content Manager Manager

    Ratings:
    +83
    I know this is something that is requested a lot but professions are coming after alpha. Providing a full game at the start is impossible. Please feel free to discuss this though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    Personally, i was thinking a mixture of both where each of your actions would increase the skill. you would have access to each recipe, but depending on your skills level the higher the % chance that you would create a high quallity item.

    I invission it with material Tiers between 1-10, with 1 being basic with everybody able to access them and 10 being legendary quallity. as your skill increases, the chance that when you turn wolf pelt into a higher level leather would increase, thus meaning that A: the more you put into your craft, the better you become at it and B: Adventurers need to contact individuals, and pay for their services in creating high quality leather to use
     
  5. MrDienns

    MrDienns Lead Developer & Technology Manager Manager Developer

    Ratings:
    +218
    Each profession has a level which gets higher the more you do it. Higher levels would naturally increase positive aspects of that profession and unlock more benefits.
     
  6. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    True, but I was also talking about uockinbg certain materials to use as you go, where (for example) a mystic wolf drops mystic wolf pelt, and if you aren't a high enough level then there is large chance of it just being destroyed upon trying to refine it.

    That way, people could sell their services for refining items, aswell as well the more common ones themselves. Any craftsmen could make an iron ingot, but with how rare mystical iron is you would only want someone who specialises in that skill to refine it, to avoid destruction or poor quality stuff
     
  7. Euvrounin

    Euvrounin Content team, Moderator Content team Moderator

    Ratings:
    +35
    I believe we already had a discussion about this few months ago / last year, we put it on hold since we wont be needing it in Alpha.

    Unlockables / Achievement items would a fine addition in the professions.
    Also, i believe some materials might have certain "quality" with them but then again .. nothing has been properly discussed yet.

    Professions has been such an interesting topic to discuss. I would love to follow this thread.
    Keep the topic rolling! this might be quite useful on future professions-related plans

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    First off, thanks for the input there my man, it's good to have a solid view from the staff.
    Secondly it is my firm belief that a system where professionals are able to enter the field is essential to have a truly emersive experience. Most people will be drawn to the classic combat or support style of the main game, but at the end of the day it is the craftsmen who are the core of the server.

    It not only works from an economical standpoint, but think of the in game RP opportunities? You could have a skilled blademaster, who harvests and refines the metal for his own weapons, an assassin who concocted his own poison from the supplies of an alchemists or even something as obscure as a traveling merchant, hunting their own meat and supplies along the way to sell to each town.

    By separating the map, and allowing for these skills to run free, you skip the need for creating vast backstories by allowing the players to build them for you!

    Want a giant city of dwarves, filled with the most skilled blacksmiths in the land? Easy! Put a high quality quarry close by and the players will be drawn to it. Want a city defined by it's alchemical artists and magic users? Fill the near by forest with certain rare ingredients, or even region specific ones, because then you will have a town of dedicated players.

    The best part about a system like this, is how it only supports an open world style adventure, where the player is not railroaded as so many other servers do.
    Let's take Jimmy, for example, Jimmy wants to be an assassin based character. Well, first he wants a decent weapon, so he heads to a blacksmith centred area to get a high quality dagger. Then, he trecks through the country and landscape, battling deadly creatures on the way to find a village in the countryside with a good alchemist to create his poisons. Then, he moves towards a place with plenty of wild monsters, not only to test his might but also to collect the pelts, hiring a craftsmen to make him a set of stealthy leather armour.

    The system itself does not constrict the player, and encourages diversity whilst also allowing the players to conform. Not everybody in a city of blacksmiths is going to want to be a blacksmith, as they will see the money making hole left in that area. Who will supply them food, potions etc? No one! So a few people set up shop there, selling their services/goods to make better money than they would in other areas where their profession is more common.

    I mean, which would you rather, spend a few extra gold coins on your potion or treck across the countryside for a slightly cheaper one?

    Of course, this has it's obvious draw backs. A system like this is completely decimated by the inclusion of a fast travel system. Nobody in their right mind would choose 20 gold coins extra over a quick TP to a different place, and so if fast travel were to be implemented it would have to either A: Cost a considerable amount, thus pushing players to explore the land aswell as slow the inflation of the local economy, or B: not be included at all, forcing players to make the choice between days of travel or paying extra.

    This was he'll of a mess to think and communicate, so I hope it made sense hehe, I'd love to hear some opinions from people, especially because I have some other things if like to ask peoples opinions on
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Perotin

    Perotin Duke

    Ratings:
    +60
    The idea of a fast-travel system could be in a thread of its own (My vote would be no fast travel).

    I do like all the ideas you bring up, and essentially it boils down to recreating real-life in minecraft, which is what the MMORPG part of the game is meant to do. As Euvro stated and others, this would be really extensive to create and I doubt we'd see something like this anytime soon. In fact, we (the players) don't really know the purpose of Dyescape and its main objectives. We can assume that it'll involve defeating dungeons, grinding up gear and doing quests, but the end-game is still unknown. I could see something like this filling that void (or being another outlet for an end-game).
     
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  10. Aekalix

    Aekalix Frontend & Content Manager Manager

    Ratings:
    +83
    Interesting, but the main question is: are you suggesting to limit people to certain professions so you pick one and master it or make it a hard grind to get to master level so you have to specify in one?
     
  11. MrDienns

    MrDienns Lead Developer & Technology Manager Manager Developer

    Ratings:
    +218
    It heavily depends what we want, but one thing you could look at is to have it activity based. You could make it so that if you do not keep training your profession, you will lose experience in it. For example, if I master out smithing, and I don't do any smithing for 24 hours (of gameplay time!), I would no longer be a master, but a level below that. That is one option, the other would be to simply hard reject the possibility of mastering several professions. These are all just technical options you can choose, so I will leave the decision making to the content team as always.

    Though in my eyes it does sound smart to prevent players from being able to master too many professions. As Red said himself, professions could be vital to keeping the economy flowing. This flow could be disrupted if everyone is able to master every profession with "ease".

    As per the fast travelling; our world will become quite big. I do not think that having no fast travelling at all would do, as it would make travelling time incredibly long at some point. However, I do agree that if we implement fast travelling, it should come with a reasonable cost (though due to the map size, fast travelling will not be available at initial alpha launch).
     
  12. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    whilst i agree heavily with MrDienns, i would personally offer each player towards the start of their adventure the opertunity to "study" under some NPC craftsman in a different area of the world, increasing the % of experience gained when practicing a specific skill, and lowering the quantity of experience you would gain from other out of combat skills.

    that way, you wouldnt ever really be prevented from doing the other skills, but you would be pushed to persue one over the others.
     
  13. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team

    Ratings:
    +35
    The studying under NPC craftsmen can be quite easily implemented with Profession Quests, I believe that has been suggested before and might have been added to Aeky never-ending list of things to do.
     
  14. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team

    Ratings:
    +35
    But to give my opinion on this thread, I think there are some good ideas being thrown around here.

    We've already had tons of long conversations about professions in the suggestion discussion chat with a lot of cool ideas. I do love the idea of having people known for being great craftsmen that seek out to make the best weapons out there. There are a few suggestions I wanna "remind" everyone of that I can remember.

    - As said in the original post, crafted items should have different cool attributes, like extra fire resistance and stuff. Me and Jay even went the extra mile to make a full-fledged sheet on things like this, though only focusing on the cooking profession. I don't think that ever released to the public or got very little attention or was shut down pretty fast.

    - As I mentioned above, profession quests should be a thing. Being a master fisher you could be sent to fish up a behemoth of a fish that was threatening to eat all the ships going in and out of the capital's port or you have to go slay a dragon for its tooth to make a legendary sword!

    Now to give my opinion on the things said in the thread:
    - I love the idea of the main crafting zones. This addition could make certain zones that otherwise could be fairly empty spring into life. Maybe the zones lack good quests or has no dungeon or world bosses and is just plain boring. What if you added a mining outpost there where you can get rare materials? That would make the area more attractive to certain crafters. This also mitigates having one city where everyone sits around all day, using the auction house to get the materials and then just crafting everything they desire. You could also restrict rare materials from being put on the auction house to counter it more. No major cities should be the main crafting area for any profession instead, you should place the crafting areas in general in between two major cities and they shouldn't be super large but not too small either.

    To add more to this, having certain materials only craftable in specific instances would also be cool. The Blackrock Depths from WoW is a good example. It is the only place where you're able to smelt down dark iron ore into bars. Also, alchemy labs were only accessible when in specific instances, requiring alchemists to head out into dangerous dungeons to make their potions.

    - Rare crafting materials are obviously going to be in the server, though how you get them has to be decided. If I remember correctly it has been suggested before that every time you refine materials there should be a chance to get rarer refined materials, (Smelting ore and a chance to be of rare quality). This is a good system, but you would have to make those materials available to be straight up crafted at a certain point. The only thing is maybe there are some materials you don't have to "refine" to be used in crafting. In GW2 you're able to combine the very basic materials into rare. Let's say you have to combine 100 common fangs and you get 2-6 uncommon fangs etc.

    - Fast travel (in relation to crafting), is a good idea, but hold on before you angrily reply. Fast travel should be limited and should cost a fair price. Maybe you can only fast travel between major cities that as I mentioned before shouldn't be the main crafting area. But in general fast travel will reduce arguably the most annoying thing about travelling between two large distances over and over again. Of course, you would always have to discover that fast travel point.

    - Losing experience. I love this addition. If you don't constantly practise your craft you are unable to stay in your prime. This makes it so people are constantly crafting and using up materials instead of hoarding thousands of stacks of materials, waiting for the next best thing they can craft. Also once you have lost some experience, getting back to the max rank should be a bit easier to get now that you've gotten to that level. This shouldn't apply to the lowest of levels of crafting though.

    And I want to see added onto professions:

    - Recipes and how to get them. For crafting the players shouldn't be instantly able to craft certain items without a recipe. You could include a few ways of finding recipes into the game. First is having an experimentation screen. You select a few materials and it tells you if these make something or not. Once you craft one of those items that recipe gets saved to your recipe book and you can easily craft more of them. The second way of finding recipes should be from Profession quests or Quests in general. Maybe you have a quest where a chef asks you to fetch him some boar meat and some spices from a nearby city that he needs for a customer. You get him those ingredients and for your effort, he teaches you how to make that spiced boar meat recipe. Profession quests that have you go on a long chain of quests leading through zones and dungeons could award you with a legendary recipe! The third way of gaining recipes would be from mob drops. Maybe you're an alchemist and you're looking for the strongest healing potion in the whole game. Now getting this recipe isn't easy. You have to defeat a holy knight raid boss from one of the most difficult raids in the game! And it only has a few % drops chance. Good luck grinding out those raids but once you get the item, you will feel accomplished and for your efforts, you're one of only a few with the recipe. People come from all kinds of corners of the world seeking you to get a few potions so they and their group can clear a raid.

    - The rarest materials and recipes should be untradable. This makes it so people actually have to complete certain content to become the very best blacksmith or alchemist. As mentioned before this would mitigate people from just sitting at the auction house all day just buying everything they need. Though this should only be applicable to the very end game things that are needed to become the highest rank of crafting.

    You've done well if you've gotten to this point only a little bit to go!

    - Different professions should help each other. This suggestion really needs you to restrict people from getting too many professions. Maybe to craft that sword you've always wanted you need the highest quality of wood from the forests of Atlya to make the grip and for the pummel you need the most beautiful gem from the depths of the world. And then to finish is off you need an enchanter to give it the best enchant they can for extra stats. This makes it so player interaction is needed, but obviously some of those materials you're able to purchase from an auction house etc. and makes every profession need others.

    And this concludes my reply to the thread. This is yet again an amazing thread that I'm going to have to watch and comment on daily. If you have any questions about my thread just quote the part and comment below (quote the specific part and not the entire post)
     
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  15. Zirker

    Zirker Content team

    Ratings:
    +6
    "- The rarest materials and recipes should be untradable. This makes it so people actually have to complete certain content to become the very best blacksmith or alchemist. As mentioned before this would mitigate people from just sitting at the auction house all day just buying everything they need. Though this should only be applicable to the very end game things that are needed to become the highest rank of crafting."


    While I get the idea behind this, I'm not a fan of it... I agree on crafting recipes being untradable as that is more related to personal achievement,but the materials being untradable would be awkward.
    Say your guild is preparing for a dungeon so everyone is grinding rare materials, only those that could craft with those materials would be able to grind them. Secondly crafting would be far too grindy if all the top tier ingredients would have to be grinded by the craftsman this would also mean that your capability of making good items would be more dependent on time spent grinding instead of your skill. Lastly rare materials are an essential part of player economy and removing them would limit the choices of money making to a group of people(item flippers).
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  16. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team

    Ratings:
    +35
    Yup yup yup you're totally right. I didn't really consider any of your points when writing that. I was mainly thinking that I don't like how people can just go to the trading post or auction house to get the specific materials that in theory are fairly easy to gather. In GW2 this is especially true and I've done this myself. I just got the gold and bought 100+ gold worth of materials to craft something when in reality if I would have just grinded for the materials it would only cost a few silver. Mainly the steep price curve comes from the 1-day cooldown on crafting special rare materials. I think there still should be some challenge to crafting and just being able to buy everything just doesn't feel right. I guess Profession Quests and special recipes already make it that way. Though free material traiding is a thing in GW2, crafting a legendary is very grindy and costs a lot of money and time. In GW2 to craft a legendary, you need a lot of materials which are untradable and require you to complete certain content (Usually word events, world bosses or dungeons). Or if you want a generation 1 legendary they are purchasable from the auction house, which is like not a good thing. This is ultimately down to the content team on how they want to approach crafting the rarest of weapons.
     
  17. Rednaxman

    Rednaxman

    Ratings:
    +3
    Whilst this will be a small, possibly terrible idea, I believe legendary weapons shouldn't be necessarily difficult to craft, but instead require ***insainly*** specific circumstances to be created, and the information on ***how*** to make them be the hard to obtain part. The economy should not just lie upon the physical, but information too. A blade that's better against the undead, that can only be crafted by using a silver sword that has killed 100x of any undead, a jawbone of a skeleton only dropped on a full moon, and the blood of a werewolf that has died mid transformation. This means you cannot accedently create one, but they are fairly easy to obtain in the long run.

    What makes a legendary weapon special is... Well, it's legendary! Not every shmuck can go walking round with Horvath of the eternal flame, blade of the gods and slayer of giants! That's why I would suggest legendary weapons be fairly end game, but the crafting recipes not be.

    The blade itself might he useful for a LVL 400 person, but the quest to obtain the info on how to make it alone would require someone of LVL 500. That way people in game like craftsmen, blacksmiths and alchemists would be pushed to then begin giving out their own quests to adventuring parties! It is because of this, I would also have to push for only one of each legendary weapon to be able to exist at any one point. They are of legend after all, you won't find duplicates.
     
  18. Zirker

    Zirker Content team

    Ratings:
    +6
    "It is because of this, I would also have to push for only one of each legendary weapon to be able to exist at any one point. They are of legend after all, you won't find duplicates."

    While this sounds nice and makes it feel a lot more special, it is not practical in a video game, say one of the players who has a legendary goes inactive, should we destroy the legendary weapon so other people can use it? How long should we wait for the player to be inactive until we destroy the sword? What if they login every once in a while so their sword wont be destroyed?There are a lot of these nuisances we have to keep in mind when creating such a "strong" mechanic.

    Another aspect of it is the players with the legendary weapons would dominate everything, we want players to feel like they are rewarded not only for exploring and searching for secrets but also for their skill, losing a fight to a player because he has an item that you will never be able to have would feel like cheating.

    Now this doesn't mean I don't like the idea of unique weapons, I just think they need to be thought of in another way, like making the crafting recipes hard to find and hard to complete.
     
  19. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team

    Ratings:
    +35
    I'd argue against having too specific of circumstances to craft something. Someone would maybe randomly obtain the parts that are needed to craft such an item. It should rather be difficult to craft something of that level. To make a legendary blade, you have to go on long journeys through different zones and instances, killing world bosses, dungeon bosses and raid bosses. You would need the help of your friends and guildies to get through the challenges in front of you. Maybe you have to solve some puzzles in hidden areas of the world, someplace everyone just ignores as there seems to be nothing.

    Also just as Cirkler said, Legendary weapons shouldn't be this mystical thing that just overpowers everyone else, it should rather be like a step up from epic or whatever is the second-best quality. Maybe it's like a 1.5 quality step but it shouldn't just make you this otherworldy god in terms of power, but rather status. When you're chilling at the capital as a level 20 player and you see this max level character run past you, wielding this legendary weapon and you set that as your goal. This person might seem like someone you could never be, but if you put the time in and become good enough that person can be you.

    In conclusion, Legendary weapons shouldn't be something you just randomly get because you got lucky and did something way too specific for the average player to get. Rather you should go on this epic questline to get it.
     
  20. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team

    Ratings:
    +35
    We might have to make another thread to discuss legendary weapons, this post is more for general profession stuff.
     

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