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Suggestion Talent Trees

Discussion in 'Suggestions and feedback' started by KabbyDankGod, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Noble

    What is up, DyescapeNation, I'm your host Kabby, let's get right into the suggestion.

    So, my threat and taunting thread seemed to go well and I've been ever since thinking of other suggestions that are more like system explanations rather than direct suggestions. This is another system that I feel is very typical of MMOs and would probably have a benefit on Dyescape. I have suggested this before, about a year ago I think but wanted to make this post to explain it further. And as you can see from the title we are talking about:


    Now, Kabby, what are talents?
    Well, talents are additional class-specific abilities or powers that require talent points to gain or improve. Each class has three Talent Trees to choose from, these being the same as each of their specializations. These little adjustments make your character yours, since most people, at least at the start, would choose widely different talent setups.

    Alright, but why have talents?
    Talents are a great way to allow players to customize their character and tailor them to fit the gameplay they like, since different talents and their combinations are good for other things, while a fully different setup would yield greater results in other areas. Without having talents you would also make it so everyone who chooses a class would have an identical character outside of the loot they have. Sure this would make balancing a bit easier and players would always know what they are facing, but that removes a large layer of customization from players and makes playing the same class and specialization feel the same every time.

    If this system is so great then, how would it work?
    Talents would be unlocked fairly early, but not at the start of once character giving newer players a sense of pace instead of introducing ten systems at a time. Achieving the unlocking level would grant you your first talent point as well as every level thereafter. Players would be free to place their points in any tree they want, but generally putting most of your points in a single tree would yield the greatest results.

    The talent tree would be split into tiers, giving you access to the tier you are on and all the past tiers for that specific tree. Putting 5 points into the tree would put you to the next level of that talent tree and adding another five to the same tree would increase the tier again. These points can be spent at any of the tiers, as long as they are in the same tree. This essentially means you cannot put 10 points into tree A to unlock tier 3 for tree B.

    Once you have assigned a point into a talent, it will now be allocated. Allocation is a finished decision and cannot be retracted unless you go to a specific type of NPC that can exchange money for resetting talents.

    Well, what if I choose the wrong talent or I want to change my play style?
    As mentioned above, this could be done through a specific NPC that will in exchange for money will refund your talents.

    And because I know some people would want examples, I have prepared a few tiers of talents for Warrior and Priest:

    Tier 1:
    1. Improved Chop - Increases the bleed damage done by your Chop ability by 1% per level | Max 5/5 points, for 5% bleed damage

    2. Brutality - Increase the damage of your warrior spells by 2% per level | Max 5/5 points, for 10% extra damage on spells
    Tier 2:
    1. Booming Voice - Increase the range of your Provoke and Roar abilities by 0.5 blocks per level | Max 5/5 points, for 2.5 blocks extra range

    2. Improved Brave - Increases the duration of the brave skill by 1 second per level | Max 5/5 points, for an additional 5 seconds of duration to Brave.
    Tier 3:
    1. <Didn't come up a name for this one> - After being a victim to a critical strike reduce the cooldown of your Combat Regeneration ability by 2 seconds per level | Max 3/3 points, for 5-second reduction to Combat Regeneration cooldown.

    2. Last Stand - Increase your base damage by 5% per level if you are under 40% of your total health. | Max 3/3 points, for 15% bonus base damage when under 40% total health.

    3. Improved Bull’s Rush - Your Bull’s Rush ability gains a second charge, and deals extra 5% damage. | Max 3/3 for 15% extra damage on Bull’s rush
    Tier 1:
    1. Holy Discipline - Increase the users spell and healing power by 1% per level | Max 5/5 points, for an additional 5% spell and healing power

    2. Divine Power - Reduce the cooldown of your Smite and Immolate abilities by 1 second per level | Max 5/5 points, 5-second cooldown reduction to Smite and Immolate
    Tier 2:
    1. Improved Fortify - Increase the Armor bonus of your Fortify spell by 2% per level and the damage bonus by 1% per level | Max 5/5 Points for 10% bonus armor and 5% bonus damage increase

    2. Improved Rejuvenate - Increase the healing of your rejuvenate spell by 1.5% per level | Max 3/3 for 5% extra healing every 2 seconds

    3. Blessed Recovery - After critically healing your target, increase the critical chance of your next healing spell by 10% per level | Max 3/3 for 30% extra critical chance after critically healing
    Tier 3:
    1. Focused Light - Increase the critical strike chance of your Testimony and Holy Burst abilities by 5% per level | Max 3/3 for 15% extra critical strike chance to Testimony and Holy Burst

    2. Guardian Angel - Your heal gains a 2% per level chance of also giving your target a bonus 15% defense for 5 seconds. | Max 5/5 for 10% chance

    3. Holy Immunity - Your Cure ability now has a 50% per level chance to apply a debuff immunity for 3 seconds. | Max 2/2 for 100% chance.
    Yes, some of the numbers might not make sense, but talents wouldn't be showcased in this fashion where you would have the per level and Max level showing at the same time. For example, Improved Rejuvenate would normally have 4.5% extra healing at max rank, but levels 1 and 2 would be a 1.5% increase and level 3 would be a 2% increase. This goes for all the other talents with math that doesn't quite add up.


    Here are two more different kinds of talent trees. These both will employ a similar tier system, but you can only choose a single talent per tier. Each tier unlocks after a certain level has been achieved. For example tier 1 unlocks at level 10, tier 2 at level 15, and so forth.

    Modern WoW Style system:

    In this talent tree, you would see both passive abilities and active abilities. Generally, a single tier will have one active ability at least. These talents are more impactful than the ones from the previous system and overhaul your character more per talent. Each tier has three talents to pick.

    For example, you could have talents like this:

    Tier 1:

    Font Sensory - Your Arcane Missiles will now seek for the font of your enemies, homing towards them no matter where they go. If no target is found, the missiles fly normally.

    Arcane Flow - Casting different spells after each other grants the mage a stacking bonus to damage, gaining 10% bonus damage stacking up to 100% bonus damage. Stacks as long as the spell you cast isn't the same you cast before it.

    Font Shield - The user generates a shield that negates all the damage taken, but using it drains font equalling 25% of the damage taken.

    Tier 2:
    Amplified Blast - Your arcanic blast AoE damage will now linger, dealing 50% base damage every second for four seconds.

    Arcane Runes - Replaces Arcane Charge. The user creates a large rune, taking up a 5x5 area in which everyone gains a 10% damage boost for 30 seconds.

    <TBD> - Your Impale will now destroy your target's armor, reducing their armor by 15% for four seconds.


    A second system would be similar to GW2's specialization system. This works differently to both systems above but is kinda similar to the modern wow one.

    This system works by having five different Specializations. Each of these specs would focus on a single aspect like increasing damage or focused on giving extra protection.

    Each spec is split into Minor and Major traits. Every other one is a Minor and the next one is major and so forth. Each tier is unlocked at a certain level. Each talent is passive. Tier 1 would be level 10 and a minor trait and level 15 would be tier 2 and a major trait. There are only a single minor talent per tier and three options for major tiers.

    Here are some examples of this:
    Knight | Damage Spec
    Tier 1:

    Unstoppable Assault - After critically hitting a target, reduce the cooldown of your damaging abilities by 2 seconds.

    Tier 2:
    Offense is the best defense - Activating Courage also gives you a 15% boost to damage for the duration.

    Charge the frontline - After your Heroic Charge ability ends, the knight deals damage to everyone around them with a whirlwind attack.

    Crush Them - The user deals 15% extra damage to targets who have reduced armor

    These talents aren't really impactful but each player has three spec slots and specs can be changed at any time as long as you're not in combat.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  2. Zirker

    Zirker Content team Content team

    I dislike the general idea you went with the examples, I can see the main inspiration you have for how such a system would work is the old talent system from WoW, I also disliked that system and prefer the new one, my main problems with it is that a talent that increases your damage by 2% for each point doesn't feel like much of a reward nor is it cool, I'm much more inclined to players having a low amount of talents to spend in total, but with those talents actually feeling like they do something, an example that you came up with that I actually liked was Holy Immunity, it didn't just increase how effective the skill is by a few % it actually changed the way a player might use the skill if they have that talent, another way this talent system could help with is breaking the monotonous "dps spell rotation", for example a talent that makes it if spell X is cast it now has a 20% chance to activate a buff that changes(be it damage, cooldown, a buff/debuff that it applies, etc..) spell Y for Z amount of secs.
  3. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Noble

    I personally prefer the older system, even though it has a lot of filler stuff, but the general structure of it appeals to me personally. I just quickly thought out a few examples to showcase what you could see in a potential tree, but I might change around some of them to fit better and make them feel stronger. I probably did the examples more conservatively since I'm not sure what would just seem too overpowered. And I'll probably add a few different styles of talent trees tomorrow too.
  4. Immortal


    Automated Suggestion Responding System Engaged.

    Another excellent suggestion from Kabby! Although I sorta agree with Zirker, that talent trees should significantly change playstyle, the base system sounds great! Here's my two cents for this:

    Personally I believe that Talents should be a way for the player to specialize in certain playstyles and strategies. Hence, the player should only be able to pick a single tree to specialize in. A good balance would be one talent point every three levels - 45 levels to completely max out a chosen talent tree. With that in mind, here are my suggestions for Talent Trees:
    Tier I

    1. Duelist - Small Blades Specialization. Grants the player a 5% damage and attack speed bonus to small blades (such as shortswords, daggers and rapiers) per level. Also reduces level and stat (except Agility/Dexterity [whichever applies]) requirements of small blades by 1 per level. New move: Disarming Lunge - Deals 150% weapon damage x (skill level)/2 damage to the target, with a 5 x skill level chance to disarm the target, reducing damage dealt to you by 50% for 30 seconds. 2 minute cooldown -12 seconds per level

    2. Barbarian - Two-Handed Specialization. Grants the player a 10% damage bonus to large blades (like cleavers, broadswords, spears, etc.) per level. Reduces level and stat (Except Agility/Strength) requirements by 1 per level. New move: Overhead Strike - Deals 300% weapon damage x (skill level)/2 damage to the target, with a 5 x skill level chance to stun them for five seconds. 2 minute cooldown -12 seconds per level.

    3. Ironfist - Blunt Weapon Specialization. Grants the player a 5% damage dealt and -5% damage taken bonus to blunt weaponry (like maces, hammers, quarterstaffs, etc.). Reduces level and stat (Except Dexterity/Strength) requirements of blunt weaponry per level. New move: Punishing Blows - Deals 50% weapon damage x (skill level)/2 six times, with a 2 x skill chance reduction in damage dealt by the enemy for 1 minute.

    Tier II

    1. Mercenary - Duelist Upgrade. The player gains enemy level x skill level x 0.25 (currency) on every kill. +10% small blade damage per level. New passive: Rapid Cascade - After striking a target, striking it again within half a second of the cooldown finishing deals 4 x (skill level) bonus damage. Can chain.

    2. Berserker - Barbarian Upgrade. For every percent of health lost, the player gains +0.5 x skill level % attack damage. New move: Serrated Slashes - Each attack on the target has a 5 x skill level % chance to give them the Torn Flesh and Bleeding effects. The first reduces defense by 15% while the second deals 0.5 x skill level % of the enemy health per second.

    3. Hammerhand - Ironfist Upgrade. Any attack with a blunt weapon has a 0.5 x skill level % chance to stun the target for four seconds. New move: Knockout Smash - Deal (skill level) blocks of knockback, 20% of the enemy's health as damage, and 150% weapon damage to the target. 5 minute cooldown. Can only be used once per enemy.

    Tier III

    1. Assassin - Mercenary Upgrade. All enemies' aggro range is halved for you. Agility is increased by 4 and damage dealt and taken is increased by 10% per skill level. New passive: Cloaked in Shadows - After not attacking for 20 seconds, all mobs will have their aggro range reduced to a third (does not stack with the halving). Additionally, your first attack out of cloaking will deal double damage, or triple damage if it is a spell. New move: Backstab - When striking a target from the behind, damage dealt to them is doubled on the first strike, and 10% stronger per skill level on subsequent strikes.

    2. Champion - Berserker Upgrade. +4 Strength and +5% damage with large weapons per skill level. New move: Bloodrage - 20 second duration. For every enemy slain during this period, the player accumulates a 0.01 x enemy level x skill level % bonus to damage that is applied at the end of the period for 30 seconds. 5 minute cooldown. New passive: Destructive Disparity - For every level of difference between the player and an enemy (positive or negative) the player gains + 0.5 x skill level % damage dealt and - 0.5 x skill level % damage taken. Does not work on passive mobs.

    3. Bastion - Hammerhand Upgrade. -5% damage taken and +5% damage dealt with blunt weapons and +4 Dexterity per skill level. New passive: Indomitable - The player takes 50% less KB. In addition, every subsequent attack on them by another entity past the first attack reduces damage taken by 0.5 x skill level %, up to a max of -25% damage taken. Lost if another entity attacks the player or if the enemy is slain/put under CC. New move: Templar Charge - Deals 300% weapon damage to all enemies in a line and deals 100% of your weapon damage to you. Stuns all enemies hit for 4 seconds. Distance traveled is 2 x skill level blocks.

    I stuck to Warrior for this because I didn't know if this was the kinda thing Kabby/Zirker meant. In any case, here you go. Maybe I'll post more examples for other classes later.
  5. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Noble

    Probably not your intention but these talents were really hard to understand. Talents should be simple to understand. I also disagree on having new passive and active effects on the same talents. Also, some of these talents still seem very lackluster, like +4 strength isn't much. I think if you have any new talents try to make them similar to the new examples I put onto the main post.
  6. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Noble

    Added two more different tree styles
  7. Immortal


    Ah it appears I did misunderstand it. Too many LitRPG books with Talents ftw.

    Personally I like the first system you named - it seems more impactful and cleaner overall.

    In any case, here are my new suggestions for possible Talents. Note that I posted more than three per, so that it acts more like a pool of suggestions out of which one or two can be fished out.


    Tier I

    1. Font Overcharge - Holding the attack key instead of tapping it allows the mage to funnel more font into a spell. The damage of the spell increases by 40% for every second the spell is overcharged, up to a max of +200% attack damage. In addition, an AOE effect that increases by 0.5 blocks per second charged up to 3 blocks radius is formed. Proportional font cost.

    2. Font Aura - Your Font leaks out into your environment. An aura of font forms around you, constantly reducing physical damage taken by 15% and magical damage taken by 25% as long as you have more than 25% of your font pool's max capacity stored.

    3. Spellbinding - Grants the ability Spell Storage. Using this spell, you can store one ability in an item, using up the font required for it and the ability itself. When the item is next used, for example when a weapon is swung, it releases that spell and has a 50% bonus effect. Also, the spell itself is further modified by the weapon's type/element.

    4. Font Shifting - Allows the player to cast Abjurations. This is a specific spell designed to counter other direct offense spells (i.e - not DOT, debuffs or buffs). An Abjuration cast onto an incoming spell reduces its damage proportionally to their level disparity - if the abjuration is below the spell's level it reduces it by a flat 15%, but if its level is higher than the spell it reduces the damage by 25% + an additional 1% per level disparity.

    5. Font Arcanum - Grants the player the ability 'Arcane Assimilation'. Casting this on an enemy doubles its health and attack, as well as healing it to full health. Killing it within two minutes after this will grant the player a small (0-2.5%) bonus to either font capacity, font recharge rate, damage dealt or minus damage taken. Can only be used once every 10 minutes.

    Tier II

    1. Font Siphon - Siphon Font from nearby creatures into your next spell. Increases the spell's effect by upto 400%, depending on the number of creatures siphoned and their level. Deals slight damage to them. However, this gives the mobs permanent highest aggro onto you until either you kill them or they kill you. This aggro cannot be transferred by a tank.

    2. Font Shroud - Your Font Aura has evolved into an almost living construct. Apart from a doubled defense to magic and physical attacks, your shroud now actively attacks nearby enemies. 25% chance each second for an enemy within five blocks to take about 50% weapon damage.

    3. Font Shaping - Every bit of font in your environment is just another morsel. Gain the ability to break down various font-rich substances like font crystals or gems into pure font to refill your pool. This is done with a spell that has a 1 minute cooldown. In addition to this, any debuffs or buffs inflicted upon the player also recharge a bit of their font constantly, as even it can be consumed for font.

    Tier III

    Will be done soon
  8. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Noble

    These are definitely better and simpler to understand from the once you suggested before, though there are 2-3 once that I don't really see as really good options to ever pick like.

    This is already the passive effect of mages. If you're at 100% mana you can press shift while casting to overcharge the spell, taking all your mana but having an incredibly strong effect. https://www.dyescape.com/wiki/mage/

    The bonus on this is too little for what it is and in some cases this is pure suicide. Though you could abuse this as you could find a mob that has 1 health 1 attack and use this on it and just get freebies with it.

    There doesn't really seem a benefit to this spell, you're spending a talent just to have a non-effect. You use a spell to buff your spells but you're gonna use the buff to kill the enemy/enemies you siphoned from. And also this has the same risk that you're gonna be able to find very weak mobs that pose no threat to you.

    But besides those these seem pretty interesting, maybe for your Tier 3 once try to think of once that could really change the playstyle without adding new spells.

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