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Suggestion That Dungeon!

Discussion in 'Suggestions and feedback' started by Euvrounin, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Euvrounin

    Euvrounin Content team, Moderator Content team Moderator

    Ratings:
    +37
    [​IMG]
    Hello Eturians!
    As most of you know, DUNGEON will play a huge part in our server so as we get closer to our release, I am here asking for everyones opinion and suggestion on the kind of dungeon you are expecting, what kind of mechanics do you want too see in-game, how would you like the mobs to attack, how difficult you want it to be, what kind of rewards do you want to get.

    We already have the ideas and documents ready on this matter but, it isn't too bad to ask around what's on the mind of our community when they hear the word Dungeon.
    For those who has something in their mind, feel free to comment below.

    We make impossible things possible, so be creative and don't limit yourself.
    Also, dont forget about our (Entity and Block) Phasing Plugin!
    PS. Dungeons wont be in Alpha (if you're not aware)


    Background:
    Dyescape consists of 2 types of Dungeons:
    1. Normal Dungeons - The kind of dungeons you will see while walking or exploring the map (caves, hidden temples, etc...).
    2. Boss Dungeons - The kind of dungeons when you can only enter by means of portals or a specific gateway. The inside of this dungeon consists of different mobs and bosses with specific abilities.
    You can enter the dungeon solo or by team.


     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  2. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Noble

    Ratings:
    +62
    Still don't like that "Normal Dungeons" Are called Dungeons, will be making a larger post in a sec
     
  3. Aekalix

    Aekalix Frontend & Content Manager Manager

    Ratings:
    +91
    Because according to the definition of dungeon both are dungeons. There is no other word to use for "Normal Dungeons" besides "dungeon".

    All dungeons will be dungeons and boss dungeons are dungeons as well. No reason to change name of something that is a... dungeon.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Noble

    Ratings:
    +62
    Alright boys, It's time for Kabby's Wall of text yay!
    (When I say dungeon in this post, I'm referring to "Boss Dungeons")

    I'll be going in order in what things we could suggest on the original post.

    1. Kind of dungeon I'm expecting:
    - A very typical MMO dungeon, where you defeat mobs that drop loot and gold before defeating a boss and then killing more mobs to kill the next boss to kill more mobs to kill the next boss and so forth, while finishing quests, admiring the scenery, getting XP and finding out about lore.

    2. What kind of mechanics do you want to see in-game:
    - A lot of things relating to dungeons. Bosses that have a lot of mechanics, similar to raid bosses in a way. They shouldn't just stand there hitting you and casting two spells. They should have different states depending on their HP, have complex mechanics. The bosses also should be connected to the lore and they shouldn't just be throw away characters and they need to be somewhat important to the dungeons quests. And yes dungeons should have quests. From "Kill 20 of X Mobs" Quests to "Kill the X boss" and "Find x Item" quests. Also as It's Minecraft, dungeons should have basic parkour. For long dungeons of 10+ bosses, there should be an obtainable item from the later bosses that lets you skip the first few bosses. I'd expect A lot of use of phasing. Each item that drops should have some value and every class needs drops from each dungeon. Dungeons should also need a full party to complete unless you out level it by ~20 levels. There is probably a ton of mechanics that I'm missing but I'll comment more when I think of more. There should also be hidden reward chests that randomly spawn.

    3. How would I want mobs to attack:
    - I want the mobs to pose a challenge. They should obviously focus the tank as per MMO tradition, but they shouldn't just deal no damage. They should make the healer actually do stuff and possibly have mobs that specifically target the healers so they can't just sit still and spam heal the tanks. Dungeon mobs should have at least a few skills that they use depending on the class of the mob. They should have some same skills as the players, but they should also have their own spells that relate to the mob and to the dungeon they are found in.

    4. How difficult would I want dungeons to be:
    - Dungeons should be hard enough to pose a challenge to both new players and to those whose 10th dungeon run it is. They should always feel challenging unless you obviously are ~20 Levels above like I said. Dungeons shouldn't also scale to players, rather being at a fairly static level.

    5. What kind of rewards would I want to receive from dungeons:
    - Dungeons should drop all kinds of loot. From exclusive items, like potions, weapons, trinkets, and armor to just gold and random meaningless items. Also, there needs to be EXP for both mob kills and completion of the dungeon. They should also give achievements, mounts, cosmetics, toys, things to put in your guildhall. Just a lot of different rewards, but it shouldn't be too over rewarding. It needs to feel satisfying to the player, but there shouldn't be too much shit that players are able to get from a single run. Keep specific saught after items rare at < 1% Drop rates. Obviously some items that drop from bosses in the dungeon should have lore connections.

    Now for something I've already talked about a bunch of times.

    - Please please please, make dungeons so important to the game that certain aspects of the game you'd have to do in dungeons. Like when I and Immortal talked about runesmithing, you should have to do higher-ranked things in a dungeon. This makes dungeons have another purpose other than just being there to progress through the game. The dungeons should have lots of quests to keep the player visiting dungeons often. Also please please please, make certain materials have to be made in dungeons. This just makes dungeons even more important than they already are. If you wanted to make a specific potion, you should have to go the crazy scientist's chemistry room inside a dungeon to craft certain potions and you'd have to go down to the heat of a volcano dungeon to smelt specific ores and make bars out of them!. Please!!!!!!!!!!

    Conclusion

    All and all, dungeons should be something that is interesting and different from each other. When two dungeons that shouldn't be linked with each other at all are very similar, it feels lazy to players. As if you had just recycled something and it was so clear they could spot it. They should be linked to lore as always and they should be relevant to players even if they are max level. You should have certain quests to back to earlier dungeons.

    ~ Kabby <3
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  5. Immortal

    Immortal

    Ratings:
    +8
    As Kabby said, I feel that dungeons should be more than just a grind spot. Dungeons should be meaningful - linked to the lore. And similarly, the mobs shouldn't spawn at the exact same places every time or use the exact same abilities in the exact same sequence. Nobody should be able to predict their behavior accurately and only know vaguely whom they're going to attack at most. And perhaps some dynamic changes. If, say, one of the members has made a pact with X deity who was Y deity as an enemy, then the number of enemies in a dungeon related to Y deity should be higher, and vice versa. And further, if they enter a dungeon of X deity, the number of enemies would be less.


    Another suggestion is for non-combat activities as well to take place here. An example: Weaponsmith David wants to make a blade out of a metal called Frigidite which for this example we will take to be an Ice Attuned Metal and therefore needs to be forged in an extremely icy environment. And so David heads down to a dungeon in snow-capped mountains and into the boss chamber, the home to a Frost Titan. Upon defeating or evading it for long enough, David manages to forge the blade out of Frigidite. Dungeons could be virtual havens for lore and activities and could have mine-able resource nodes, special forging spots, ritual areas, and more. And because of the block phasing system, there is virtually no competition for such things other than the mobs present, which are a challenge in themselves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Aetheism

    Aetheism Noble

    Ratings:
    +24
    Dungeon-Specific Sets. Say, you complete the spider dungeon, get the spider set, and it gives you immunity to cobwebs, or poison, while in the dungeon. This would be a difficult set to acquire, would play into a grindy 'dungeoneering' skill, with many attempts and completions of every boss dungeon required before advancing to the next(through a tribute, key fragment, or essence system). This could be used to incentivize team-play, with players grouping up to grind out dungeons until sunrise.

    Dungeoneering could take place through an NPC that required specific rare drops, a certain dungeoneering level, and other various case-specific requirements to give a player the 'knowledge' of (access to) a dungeon location.

    How would grinding the same dungeon not get boring? It wouldn't. Using the glory of block-phasing, each instance of a dungeon could be pseudorandomly picked from a number of texture/layout prefits.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Aetheism

    Aetheism Noble

    Ratings:
    +24
    A random house should have a basement filled with curious objects. When discovered by the player, they would get an achievement or 'discovery' called "Another Kind of Dungeon".
     
  8. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Noble

    Ratings:
    +62
    I don't like this implementation of dungeon sets. From the sounds of this, it sounds like these sets would be only useful in the dungeon and that doesn't make sense. Why would you want armor that just works in a specific dungeon?

    Grinding dungeons makes things very boring, trust me I have done it plenty of times. Obviously people will be spamming dungeons anyways to boost their exp gain. I wouldn't want boss dungeons to be grindy in the way that you just gotta keep doing it again and again. Sure if you want that one specific item that has a 1% drop chance go on and grind it, but just to get to the next dungeon? No-no-no. That would make people have to grind through each dungeon regardless of if they are already tens of levels above the one they need to grind out to get to the next one to grind out to get to the next one to grind to get to the dungeon they want to go. Dungeoneering doesn't seem like a skill I would personally enjoy as it seems like just a bunch of boring grinding of dungeons. Maybe there is a dungeon that is just so dreadful but just so I can get to the level 30 dungeon I have to grind out this dumb ass slime dungeon. If the level 30 dungeon had an item I wanted, I'd rather just let someone else do it and do some other skill to get gold to buy the item rather than go through the effort to do mindless grinding. This is an MMORPG but you don't want it to become an endless grind machine. I do love gear treadmills, but this just seems like a treadmill on a treadmill. Dungeons should be places you go and you enter. For the key mechanic do what I suggested: You could skip maybe the first three bosses of a dungeon to get to the later parts to get rid of some of the grind of the dungeon. You wouldn't get a full clear exp, but you would get done faster and you could grind the things you want to grind.

    I have already suggested this in another post many months ago.

    And isn't this basically what a normal dungeon is? Just a random place that fits the description of Dungeon. Also, from your description, this does sound like a sex dungeon, which wouldn't be good for dyescape's image unless it's a very obscure reference.
     
  9. Euvrounin

    Euvrounin Content team, Moderator Content team Moderator

    Ratings:
    +37
    Thanks for all your opinions and suggestions,

    Yes, Boss related Dungeons would be tied to the lore and would take a lot of time to finish considering it will involve tons of mechanics, not unless your party has mastered everything. If you somehow managed to check the related links i put in the post, you will have an idea of how things might work in-game.

    And I'm still in the middle of thinking if we should at least release a sample run video once we have the dungeon or not.. since that will spoil the fun of learning the mechanics and knowing what to expect once inside.
    https://dyescape.com/threads/boss-mechanics.194/
    Check my post, Dont necropost pls. Thanks!

    I'll post a sample mechanic later so everyone would have more idea on what to expect in the future.
     
  10. GhostOfRelevancy

    GhostOfRelevancy

    Ratings:
    +1
    I don't think this is too old so I'm going to post my opinion.

    Usually one of my ideas for dungeons is that they're totally quest-centric, with branching paths, an obvious main path, and a ton of NPC given quests along the way - many opening up after you defeat the boss. What this setup does is it allows for much more content - not just one run to kill the boss and you're done. There would be secret exits, magic items similar to Zelda games that allow you to explore more of the dungeon, and hidden chests and items throughout that NPCs task you to find. These magic items would double as ways to keep people on the main path their first time through. Doing dungeons like this would result in fewer dungeons, but more content per dungeon

    Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be similar to anyone else's ideas lol. This kinda ruins the team aspect as well :/

    Edit: I love the dynamic idea where mobs are different based on your alignment. I don't really like the idea that certain materials have to be made in dungeons - sounds tedious.
     
  11. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Noble

    Ratings:
    +62
    Is it really tedious? If you're doing a dungeon that possibly takes an hour or two to complete is taking 5-10 seconds to mine some ore, skin beasts or gathering plants every few pulls so bad? With my suggestion not every dungeon would have this, it would only really concern one or two max or near max level dungeons. It would not only make sense lore-wise but it adds to the RP of the server. And before you complain about me saying its for RP you are playing an mmoRPg. Having to clear a dungeon to craft an epic weapon is really that, epic. To help this you would have a way to get to the maybe halfway point of the dungeon, as I said in my suggestion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  12. Zirker

    Zirker Content team Content team

    Ratings:
    +7
    Wouldn't putting materials you can only get in a dungeon make it boring then?
    If a dungeon that requires 10 people has enough material to make 1 piece of a set consisting of head, chest, legs and feet, you would need to run it 40 times to get everyone geared up.
     
  13. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Noble

    Ratings:
    +62
    After doing a single google search, the thing this is based off of can be acquired from outside the dungeon from the surrounding zones, but you still have to smelt the ore to bars and craft the items in the dungeon. But you could also just increase the drop chance or just make it be like how it is in classic wow. To craft the epic hammer sulfuron's hammer you have to get Dark Iron and craft it in the dungeon. Then you upgrade it to Sulfuran, Hand of Ragnaros a legendary item. This is a colossal feat and just having a single one of these in your raiding group makes your group way stronger. I guess this would only work if Dyescape is more community-focused than self-focused, which I'd prefer it was more community-focused. I'm not gonna ramble about this community shit in this post, but I've already voiced my reasonings in a few different threads. But going back to the hammer, just crafting one of these is a colossal achievement for the community, because it not only Dark Iron a material which you need to refine in the dungeon, you have to get drops from the dungeon and the raid in the dungeon, and craft the item in the dungeon. The material wouldn't be used to craft a 100 different items, but like 10-15 strong items that need a lot of the material.
     

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