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Rejected Threat and Taunting

Discussion in 'Suggestions and feedback' started by KabbyDankGod, Jul 2, 2020.

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  1. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Baron

    Sup yall it's me, its ya boy Kabby!

    Tanking in MMOs is a pretty huge feature, so it would make sense for Dyescape to have this. This used to not be possible, but with the new rule engine, it should be possible for this kind of mechanic to be added to dyescape. But first, we need to explain a few ideas.

    Threat vs Aggro
    Aggro is defined as the condition of a particular mob attacking a particular player, whereas threat is defined as the numerical value that each player generates through items, spells, damage, casting beneficial buffs and removing harmful debuffs during an encounter which the mob(s) will use to determine which player(s) to attack. In most cases, this would be the person with the highest threat.

    Transferring Aggro
    Transferring aggro is generally done through the means of taunt abilities or other abilities that function similarly. If the mob is untauntable, another way to transfer aggro is to gain more threat than the person you want aggro from. This can be simply done by increasing DPS from the person who wants aggro and reducing DPS on the person dropping aggro.

    Well, how do you generate threat?
    Threat should be gained in different ways during an encounter like dealing damage, healing, buffing or debuffing. Each of these actions has a set value of how much threat they generate. Here are some example numbers, though the content team would be free to edit these.

    Damage: Damage generates threat 1-to-1 ratio. This means if you deal 100 damage, you generate 100 threat. Critical hits do not generate double threat and some spells and attacks would have different ratios, for example, a knight spell could have 1.5x threat generation so knight players can more easily keep aggro.

    Healing: Healing generates threat 1-to-0.25 ratio. This means if you heal 100 health, you generate 25 threat. As it's not directed towards a specific mob, healing generates threat evenly towards each mob the group is in combat with.

    Lifesteal: Abilities with lifesteal do not calculate both damage and healing. They would only generate the damage amount of threat.

    Buffs/debuffs: Buffing or debuffing will both generate a set amount of threat, depending on the effect. Similarly to healing it will be split among all mobs the group is fighting.

    That's cool and all, but why would you need this?
    Simply put, you need this to make tanking really work. Sure there could be some workarounds like mobs attack the first person who hit them or the person with the highest armor value, but a threat mechanic makes it more flexible, interesting, and dangerous since a bad tank could possibly drop aggro and wipe the whole party.

    Well if threat comes from damage, wouldn't the DPS always get aggro?
    This can be avoided by giving tanks access to abilities like taunt, which transfers them aggro instantly or abilities that have increased threat generation. And if that still isn't enough, you can make it so tank specs gain a passive 1.2x threat generation or something along those lines. With that, and having abilities on DPS that allows them to either passively reduce their threat generated or by having abilities that zero their threat there shouldn't ever be a problem of DPS getting aggro unless the tank doesn't understand what they're doing.

    Also from what Zirker said, this might already be a planned idea / it has at least been discussed by the content team.

    Also two suggestions two days in a row Pog
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  2. MrDienns

    MrDienns Lead Developer & Technology Manager Manager Developer

    Correct me if I'm wrong; don't you mean healing towards any player (or any other ally) in the party, or any player (or any other ally) within the range of the mob?

    Also, thanks for the detailed explanation. It helps me and the team with checking the possibilities of things.
  3. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Baron

    Because you're not targeting the mob directly with your heal, you cannot directly generate threat to them. With healing, if you heal let's say 1000 health to an ally, you would generate 250 threat. And since you're not directly doing anything to mobs, this 250 threat would be evenly spread between the mobs that you're in range of. This means if there are 5 mobs near you, you would generate 50 threat towards each one.

    Would work similarly with buffing and debuffing.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Immortal


    The return of Kabby! The event one hundred days prophesied has come to pass!

    Okay, so threat. Another potential idea is for differing mobs to apply threat differently. For example, one type of mob would attack the weakest (as in HP) person with the highest aggro, while others would attack the person with the highest HP and highest aggro. This would help differentiate mobs of different types and caliber and also force groups to adapt to the mob rather than following a rote process for each raid.

    Even further, mobs that feared magic would attack highest aggro mages first, while others may not. This would make potential groups form a proper composition of the classes they want in the raid, depending on the mob(s) they are planning to face.
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  5. KabbyDankGod

    KabbyDankGod Wiki Team Wiki Team Baron

    I kind of said this, but not very clearly in the original post.

    But yeah, there should be an option to configure mobs to attack the person with the least threat or as you said or maybe that they attack the person with the highest threat and is using magic attacks, or who is weakest. This would give the content team more flexibility, but I think some of these should also be able to be added to abilities as well, meaning you could give a mob or a boss the ability to attack the weakest person with a single ability. This could be some kind of burrow strike to assassinate the weakest target or something similar.
  6. Aekalix

    Aekalix Frontend & Content Manager Manager

    I like the idea. But this will bring way too many cheese mechanics with it. Its easily abusable by e.g. have the person with the highest treat run away. We'd have to do a lot of fine tuning and extra implementation to get a viable system running.

    I like a taunt mechanic but for now that's outside the scope of Alpha.

    Thus considering the difficulty executing this in comparison to other good alternatives I will have to reject this suggestion.
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